JLPT N1SpokenWry

ば～で・なら～で・たら～たでthat has its own trouble, or upside

You say the same word twice: if it is that way, then that way has its own trouble, or its own upside. Usually a wry "there's always something"; now and then an easy "that's fine too".

its own trouble

車くるまを買かえば買かったで、維い持じ費ひがかかる。

Buy a car, and then you have the running costs.

that's fine too

雨あめが降ふったら降ふったで、家いえで映えい画がを見みればいい。

If it rains, fine: we can just watch a film at home.

How to form it

A ば A で　／　A たら A たで　／　A なら A で

The same word both times. After ば, a verb usually comes back in the た-form: 行いけば行いったで.

Word	Shape	Like this
Verb	〜ば or 〜たら, then the た-form + で	行いけば行いったで, 行いったら行いったで
い-adjective	〜ければ, then 〜い + で	暑あつければ暑あついで, なければないで
Noun, な-adjective	なら, then the same word + で	一人ひとりなら一人ひとりで, 暇ひまなら暇ひまで

After it: What that case brings: a new problem (維い持じ費ひがかかる, 文もん句くを言いう), a way to live with it (〜ばいい, 何なんとかなる), or an upside (かえって集しゅう中ちゅうできる).
Where you'll meet it: Conversation above all, and essays written the way people talk.

In use

家いえは広ひろければ広ひろいで掃そう除じが大たい変へんだし、狭せまければ狭せまいで収しゅう納のうに困こまる。

A big house is a lot to clean, and a small one leaves you short of storage.

Said twice: either way there is something.

結けっ婚こんすれば結けっ婚こんしたで、別べつの苦く労ろうが出でてくる。

Get married, and marriage brings troubles of its own.

一人ひとりなら一人ひとりで、自じ分ぶんのペースで動うごける。

On my own, I can at least go at my own pace.

行いきたくなかったが、行いったら行いったで楽たのしかった。

I hadn't wanted to go, but once I was there it was fun after all.

Looking back: it happened, and it had its good side.

Ones you'll hear

あればあったで・なければないでif you have it …; if you don't …

お金かねはあればあったで使つかってしまうし、なければないで何なんとかなる。

When you have money you spend it, and when you don't you get by somehow.

それならそれでif that's how it is, fine

来こられないの？それならそれでいいけど、もっと早はやく言いってよ。

You can't come? That's fine, but you could have told me sooner.

Close neighbours

ば～ほどN3

The same word twice with ほど, and another meaning: "the more …, the more …".

この小しょう説せつは、読よめば読よむほど面おも白しろくなる。

This novel gets more interesting the more you read it.

上司が上司なら部下も部下だN1

A noun twice around なら, then a second noun twice with も: both are as bad as each other.

電でん車しゃの中なかで子こどもが騒さわいでも、親おやは注ちゅう意いもしない。親おやが親おやなら、子こも子こだ。

The children are making a racket on the train and the parents don't say a word. With parents like that, no wonder the children are like that.

Check yourself

1What does this mean?

給きゅう料りょうが上あがれば上あがったで、税ぜい金きんも増ふえる。

Choose an answer to see why.

2What does this mean?

雨あめで中ちゅう止しになったらなったで、家いえでゆっくりすればいい。

Choose an answer to see why.

More detail

After たら, an adjective or a noun comes back in the past form as well: 暑あつかったら暑あつかったで, 一人ひとりだったら一人ひとりだったで.

After ば, a verb is sometimes left in the dictionary form, ある above all: あればあるで beside あればあったで. The た-form is the commoner.

More sentences

忙いそがしければ忙いそがしいで、かえって集しゅう中ちゅうできる。

When I'm busy, I actually concentrate better.

予よ定ていが延えん期きになったらなったで、空あいた時じ間かんを準じゅん備びに使つかえる。

If it does get postponed, we can use the time that frees up to prepare.

断ことわれば断ことわったで、角かどが立たつかもしれない。

And if I say no, that may cause bad feeling.

便べん利りなら便べん利りで、頼たよりすぎる危き険けんもある。

Convenient is all very well, but then there is the danger of leaning on it too much.

オンラインならオンラインで、遠えん方ぽうの人ひとも参さん加かしやすい。

Being online has an advantage of its own: people far away can join easily.