JLPT N1SpokenCritical

上じょう司しが上じょう司しなら部ぶ下かも部ぶ下かだA is bad, B no better

Noun が the same noun なら, then a second noun も the same noun だ: two people who go together, and neither is any good. Any such pair fits. The best-known is 親おやが親おやなら子こも子こだ.

この部ぶ署しょは、上じょう司しが上じょう司しなら、部ぶ下かも部ぶ下かだ。誰だれも責せき任にんを取とろうとしない。

In this department the boss is bad enough, and the staff are no better. Nobody will take responsibility.

電でん車しゃの中なかで子こどもが騒さわいでも、親おやは注ちゅう意いもしない。親おやが親おやなら、子こも子こだ。

The children are making a racket on the train and the parents don't say a word. With parents like that, no wonder the children are like that.

How to form it

A が A なら、B も B だ

A and B are nouns. The なら isn't "if" here. It only joins the two halves.

With も

A も A なら、B も B だ

Nothing changes: 監かん督とくも監かん督とくなら、選せん手しゅも選せん手しゅだ.

The two nouns: Two people or groups that go together: 親おや and 子こ, 上じょう司し and 部ぶ下か, 夫おっと and 妻つま. Now and then, two sides of one thing: 脚きゃく本ほん and 演えん技ぎ.
What is wrong: Not said. You both know, or the next sentence tells you.
Tone: Fed up. Nearly always blame, for both.
Where you'll meet it: Conversation, mostly about people who aren't there. Dialogue in dramas and novels.

In use

A

監かん督とくが責せき任にんを選せん手しゅに押おしつけているね。

The coach is pushing the blame onto the players, isn't he.

B

監かん督とくも監かん督とくなら、選せん手しゅも選せん手しゅだよ。練れん習しゅうをさぼってばかりなんだから。

The coach is bad, but the players are no better. All they do is skip practice.

兄あにが兄あになら、弟おとうとも弟おとうとだ。二人ふたりそろって約やく束そくの時じ間かんに遅おくれてきた。

The older brother is bad enough, and the younger one is no better. The pair of them turned up late.

Two things to know

Not a way to praise

English "like father, like son" can be warm. This is heard as a complaint. To praise a pair, each half needs its own word of praise.

Sounds odd: 先せん生せいが先せん生せいなら、生せい徒とも生せい徒とだ。どちらも熱ねっ心しんだ。

The teacher is bad enough, and the students are no better. They're both keen.

The first sentence has already complained about both, so the praise comes out of nowhere. For praise: 先せん生せいも熱ねっ心しんなら、生せい徒とも熱ねっ心しんだ.

One half is said alone

君きみも君きみだ turns the blame on a second person: "and you're no better".

うそをついた彼かれも悪わるいが、すぐ信しんじた君きみも君きみだ。

He was wrong to lie, but you're no better, believing him straight away.

Close neighbours

も～ば～も・も～なら～もN3

"A is so, and B is so too": each half says what is true of it, good or bad. Here the noun said again stands in for the complaint.

この案あんは発はっ想そうも大だい胆たんなら、実じつ現げん方ほう法ほうも現げん実じつ的てきだ。

This proposal is bold in its thinking, and realistic in how it would be carried out too.

Check yourself

1What does this mean?

夫おっとが夫おっとなら、妻つまも妻つまだ。

Choose an answer to see why.

2A friend comes back from a shop and says this. Was she pleased?

店てん員いんが店てん員いんなら、客きゃくも客きゃくだ。

Choose an answer to see why.

More detail

With no second half, なら is "if" again: if this were another time, or another person. 世よが世よなら is "in another age".

世よが世よなら、あの人ひとは殿との様さまだ。

In another age, he would be a lord.

More sentences

政せい府ふが政せい府ふなら、野や党とうも野や党とうだ。批ひ判はんし合あうばかりで、具ぐ体たい策さくを示しめさない。

The government is bad enough, and the opposition is no better. All they do is attack each other, and neither offers anything concrete.

販はん売ばい店てんも販はん売ばい店てんなら、メーカーもメーカーだ。どちらも故こ障しょうの原げん因いんを調しらべようとしない。

The shop is bad enough, and the maker is no better. Neither will look into what caused the fault.

脚きゃく本ほんも脚きゃく本ほんなら、演えん技ぎも演えん技ぎだ。最さい後ごまで見みるのがつらかった。

The script was bad enough, and the acting was no better. It was hard to sit through to the end.